I hear you… hear what you’re saying. Indeed I too know what it is like to have education as a god, albeit in different circumstances. I’ve shared many times how homeschooling/education had become a god for me… I gave it too much importance, too much effort, etc. I have often wondered why this happened and I don’t rightly know… what I do know is that for me it happened because I initially wanted the best for my children but knew that my own education was deficient. So I took off on my own steam.
Readers can read my journey in the series: Our Story on this page:
http://susanpriolo.com/articles/series

Joi, I do not like the Greek method or system of teaching and education either. I could never understand why, as Christians, we would desire to follow such a system, which led me to study the Hebraic lifestyle, principles and ways. Have you read the Who, Why, What series here:
http://susanpriolo.com/articles/what-when-how-to-teach
if so, what do you think of it all? (Only if you have time or inclination of course)

Much love to you ladies, my dear bloggy buddies.

I understand.

“Are you saying that you too once agreed that education with a view to communicating the gospel was a goal of education and that you have changed your mind?”

No, not saying that 🙂

I was wondering with Cathy, why it is that we feel the need to educate the heathen, even if it makes no difference to the gospel. I genuinely do wonder. Compassion? Benevolence? I couldn’t say.

It is constantly in my mind that I am teaching a soul who will, (other than by the intervention of God), be going to hell. So what if he can now read an abridged version of “Call of the Wild”? His life here will be eased some by a little entertainment, a little less shame in front of his peers, and perhaps the opportunity to advance further in the workforce. But at the end of the day, if he still can’t see that God made him, and that he owes his very next breath to the mercy of God, the question begs… “Have I really educated him at all?” And if I have, to what purpose? So he can die more “literate” than before?

I had shared the gospel with this man before teaching him to read, and continue to pray for his salvation. Will teaching him to read make one ounce of difference to the gospel message? I think not. The Greeks were a remarkably well educated society – and Godless. Education (unless the teaching of Christ is central) does not bring you closer to morality, or Godliness.

You know, our Susan, how often I have had a little fit over something we’re discussing, and you always ask what I am reacting to? To be totally honest (ya, ouch!) the issue for me here is that education has been a god to me in the past.

For me, it is a constant, constant, constant! battle to keep my perspective true. I really don’t know why I teach my student. It could be compassion (I found he couldn’t read by a means that was very embarrassing to him – and I was dreadfully sorry!), it could be the challenge of it, it could be thrill of gifting someone with language, it could be a more sinister motive! But whatever it is.. it is not because I believe it will draw him one mm closer to the gospel.

Thanks for exploring this further with me.

Joi xx

I wrote:

We desire to be educated in an effort to communicate the gospel- isn’t that the chief end of education? So to then continue learning about the Word and the world around us we must be lifelong learners and communicators…the qualities listed above would surely help those two goals, no?

YOu responded:

I don’t consider the chief end of education to be the better ability to share the gospel For me, it is to have a greater understanding of God and His creation, and therefore a further revelation of His glory, so that we might understand Who He is, and where we fit in the scheme of things. I consider that the gospel can be shared by a very simple person and have effect, because it is not the method of delivery, or the personal attraction of the orator that holds the power over the hearers, but the Word itself, and the convicting work of the Holy Spirit.

To which I agree. The gospel is the power of God unto salvation. Not eloquent words nor human understanding.

However further along in your response you shared:

I have an adult literacy student at present. He is not a Christian (not from lack of my trying to change that ) but I still persist in educating him. Why? I couldn’t say. (snip)
… When I first convinced him to learn to read, the explanation I gave him for the desire to teach, was that short of sharing the gospel, teaching someone to read was the best gift I could give them.

Are you saying that you too once agreed that education with a view to communicating the gospel was a goal of education and that you have changed your mind?

Pondering… pondering… :idk:

Hi Joi,

Ok, I really do think that we’re looking at the same coin but from different sides… Often I find that you and I do that… and further discussion brings things out.

I really didn’t see this list as apart from God. To me, it is one and the same but again I presumed that everyone would 1) know that about me and 2) feel exactly the same! Argh silly me for presuming. Of course everyone has different goals and educational philosophies. For my greatest desire is not that my children become great academic scholars or millionaires rather that they learn to walk in the Truth of God’s word, to know Him and love Him.

When you wrote

“There are many who could lay claim to most of the attributes here listed as indicative of an educated person, yet they will perish, and will draw many men after them with the deceptions perpetrated by the education they so revere.”

I completely agree. However, they will still be ‘educated’. Not spending their eternity with The Father but educated here in this life.

“But, when I compare them to the people Christ chose to take the message of the gospel to rest of world… o.k., there was a doctor, and Paul was also an educated man, but there was a bunch of fishermen, too, and I’m guessing they would be a little light on the personal style, touch of class and life purpose!”

Oh I don’t see a touch of class or personal attractive style as merely outward attributes though and I know you don’t either. Over the last few weeks I have had cause to come in contact with some rather unsavoury characters. I couldn’t give a hoot if they look classy or have even brushed their hair… but their talk, their manner, their attitude lacked a touch of class. Know what I mean? I’m talking ‘bogan’. I don’t want my children to grow up like this…. but i guess further to the point is that their lack of personal style reflects their personal belief system… as should one who believes in Christ.

“here is always some obscure thing I am thinking of when I object to something, and I just forget to make it clear – just assume everyone is thinking of the same obscure things as me when I am writing “

heehee, don’t we all. Happens to me all the time.

Cathy, lovely of you to join in and offer your perspective, which is appreciated.

you asked: BUT why do people even Christians raise levels of education?

Well there are probably ten thousand article Out There, written by theological scholars much more ‘trained’ and educated than we are but I have often wondered if it sometimes a way of avoiding God and/or if the great strive for education outside of God has its roots in evolution. You know those ‘primitive people‘ were primates but we are so much higher up the evolutionary tree than they are… you know, evolution, social engineering, genetics, etc. WDYT?

Love ya gals 🙂

Cath, I hear what you are saying. Why we educate as well… I couldn’t say. I have an adult literacy student at present. He is not a Christian (not from lack of my trying to change that 😛 ) but I still persist in educating him. Why? I couldn’t say.

When I first convinced him to learn to read, the explanation I gave him for the desire to teach, was that short of sharing the gospel, teaching someone to read was the best gift I could give them.

Girls, all this thinking you’re inflicting on me this early in the day! lol! I’ll have to go find something light and fluffy to read… just to restore my equilibrium. 😕

Bless you both xx

Hmmm, not too sure I’m following you. I don’t see education as separate from God- not at all

Oh, I know that! 😀

yet I can’t see what you’re getting at.

I shouldn’t write when I’m tired. I just shouldn’t. 😛

To me, these qualities are not goals to be aimed for aside from teaching God’s ways but in conjunction with.

I understand what you’re saying, and I know how much the Word is a focal point in your education plan 🙂

Or maybe we’re looking at the same coin from different sides Wink

Hehehe. That would be a first 😉

I don’t discount people’s thoughts or words just because they are not Christian…but you may, I’m not sure. (???)

Nah. I don’t. But I am very wary of the amount of reverence given to the writers of non-Christian education philosophy. What is the whole purpose of man? To glorify God. While the list above contains valid things to aim for (some are even listed as ‘fruit of the Spirit’), it is the complete absence of any recognition of the reason we are to attain said education, that is of concern to me. There are many who could lay claim to most of the attributes here listed as indicative of an educated person, yet they will perish, and will draw many men after them with the deceptions perpetrated by the education they so revere.

I’ve met people who were so *spiritual* that they were of little earthly good. (IYKWIM)

I often hear people quote that (ahem. may have heard it about myself once or twice 😉 ), but I think a distinction must be made between those who have a genuine faith, and those who use Christianity as a religion the way a communist does communism. (I really hope that makes sense!) What I am trying to say is, if obedience to God out of love for Him is truly your focus, then you won’t be the sounding gong, or the clanging bell type “Christian”.

People who had all the theological ducks in a row and studied the Word more than anything but lacked these sorts of qualities… their ability to impact the word in which they live could be somewhat hindered. I don’t see this as ‘blooming where we are planted’.

Oh, I don’t know. I don’t think having your theology sorted and studying the Word guarantees anything ( – eh! Let’s take a gander at the pope! 😛 ) but at the same time, I look at things like; a touch of class; an attractive personal style, etc… Sure, in our family situation we often have to rub shoulders with some flashy characters, and those (incredibly superficial) attributes could be considered beneficial. But, when I compare them to the people Christ chose to take the message of the gospel to rest of world… o.k., there was a doctor, and Paul was also an educated man, but there was a bunch of fishermen, too, and I’m guessing they would be a little light on the personal style, touch of class and life purpose! 😛

We desire to be educated in an effort to communicate the gospel- isn’t that the chief end of education? So to then continue learning about the Word and the world around us we must be lifelong learners and communicators…the qualities listed above would surely help those two goals, no?

I don’t consider the chief end of education to be the better ability to share the gospel 🙂 For me, it is to have a greater understanding of God and His creation, and therefore a further revelation of His glory, so that we might understand Who He is, and where we fit in the scheme of things. I consider that the gospel can be shared by a very simple person and have effect, because it is not the method of delivery, or the personal attraction of the orator that holds the power over the hearers, but the Word itself, and the convicting work of the Holy Spirit.

It’s okay if we disagree… I’m just not sure exactly what we might be disagreeing on! Wink

lol! You know me. There is always some obscure thing I am thinking of when I object to something, and I just forget to make it clear – just assume everyone is thinking of the same obscure things as me when I am writing 😎

It might help if you could write a rough draft list of what your qualities would be. Kiss

Eh! You mean actively think about it? lol! Perhaps I should. Perhaps I should.. I’m afraid my response here was more a reaction to what I read, rather than a well considered exposition of my educational philosophy :silly:

It’s good to have a need to think about these things 🙂

Oooohhh Oooooh, can I say “sumping” like Miss 4 would say…..

What I do notice is that “uneducated” hate that word but, in developing nations one of the FIRST thing (other than the God factor) all Missionaries (even Non Christian organisations) is try to raise the level of education….why?? Is it to do with refuting superstition (the women i worked with never even understood the concept of germs….can’t see it do not get it)

Joi I do understand what you say, I even agree ……..God is the real education, without him EVERYTHING is filthy rags

“Educating outside of God, is a bit like concentrating on having clean teeth when you’re dying of cancer. It just helps the externals shine a little, while the insides are dying.”

BUT why do people even Christians raise levels of education? I actually do not know………all missionaries I know preach, but educate at the same time……..

Is it for US we do it? Makes us feel better?
Is it a reflection of the character of God, to be advancing and creative?
Is it to be able to read the Word?
Is it to save little innocents from dying?
Is to keep these people alive until they are open and softened to the gospel?

I actually do not know……….
Is there a balance between education and the God factor? Or are they mutually exclusive? Hmmmmmmmmmmm?
Dunno?
Just some thoughts, maybe someone is smarter and has more revelation than me?
Love ya as we mull over these HIGH thoughts :rotfl:
Cath

To me, these qualities are not goals to be aimed for aside from teaching God’s ways but in conjunction with. Or maybe we’re looking at the same coin from different sides 😉

I don’t discount people’s thoughts or words just because they are not Christian…but you may, I’m not sure. (???)

I’ve met people who were so *spiritual* that they were of little earthly good. (IYKWIM) People who had all the theological ducks in a row and studied the Word more than anything but lacked these sorts of qualities… their ability to impact the word in which they live could be somewhat hindered. I don’t see this as ‘blooming where we are planted’.

We desire to be educated in an effort to communicate the gospel- isn’t that the chief end of education? So to then continue learning about the Word and the world around us we must be lifelong learners and communicators…the qualities listed above would surely help those two goals, no?

It’s okay if we disagree… I’m just not sure exactly what we might be disagreeing on! 😉

It might help if you could write a rough draft list of what your qualities would be. :-*

Blah.

You know I meant, ‘two’.

(late night partying + early rising with Miss Blossy = brain fry)

I suppose before you can compose, or accept the list of someone else, you must decide what your goal for education is, in order to compose a list of attributes of attainment.

There’s a great quote (which escapes me at present), the essence of which is something along the lines of “the education of the heathen produces…. well educated heathen.”

Educating outside of God, is a bit like concentrating on having clean teeth when you’re dying of cancer. It just helps the externals shine a little, while the insides are dying.

Too heavy for a discussion on education? I find it impossible to distinguish the too (God and education) because I believe you can’t have one without the other. The most “educated” person in the world’s eyes, the Bible calls a fool, if he denies the knowledge of God. (I know that’s a shockingly constructed sentence, but I’m too tired to try again, lol!)

So.. interesting reading, but.. on the whole, I don’t think my list would look much like this one, although this one does contain some worthy goals.